Thursday, October 30, 2014
Christmas and Bobbie
Joe Christmas finally becomes intimate with another--Bobbie. A prostitute, someone who lives on the edge of society, looked down on by most people and being taken advantage of. At the very least, she can be sympathetic to him, an outsider of society for being half-blooded. But she isn't, like most people, she tramples on him and completely forgets anything went on between the two --the intimacy, the love. It's shocking but ironic how even those on the bottom of society are disgusted by someone that was socially considered worse, "best to jump on the edge of the wagon and let it run over the ones who couldn't quite catch up, at least I'm in....just barely".
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ReplyDeleteI totally agree with you. It's very devastating to see how Bobbie could take advantage of Christmas. She lured him in and made him fall head over heels for her and at just the right moment she turned her back on him. It's very devastating to see that this story was passed upon the past but what happened to Christmas is still going on today. I feel like however, that when situations like that happen in present day, people tend to take it much harder like doing life threatening decisions to with draw the pain that they carry inside. Even though Christmas was broken hearted, i found that he dealt with the situation pretty civilly compared to stories I've heard of other people. Could Christmas's someday find true love where he doesn't have to hide his true self and would that person understand Christmas's situation?
ReplyDeleteJust a thought: Maybe Joe would have to love himself before he is truly able to love anyone else?
DeleteAh, true...like that line in chapter 11 where it states that he may not be running from his loneliness, rather he's running from himself.
DeleteYeah, I think the only way Joe can truly move on is for him to accept himself. If he can't, he wont be able to open up his heart to let people love him because he's always going to have to sense of rejection in the back of his head.
DeleteI loved the quote you used. It backed up your opinion on the topic! It is quite ironic though. All throughout the novel they seemed to have this cute romantic journey. Yet the moment things got difficult she told everyone about his secret. The secret he only trusted her with. However let's go back to the beginning of the chapter Max kept referring them to Romeo and Juliet. This could have foreshadowed that their love was going to die young.
ReplyDeleteLupe, I really love this connection between the foreshadowing of Romeo and Juliet. It is very relevant and possible that it could have foreshadowed. I never thought of it this way.
DeleteI honestly think that Bobbie never really cared about Joe. To me it seemed as if he was always just a customer to her. So, Bobbie not caring about Joe allowed her to easily give his secret up and throw him under the bus.
ReplyDeleteI see your point since at one point in the chapter she said she "might" like him. She was never clear about it. For all we know she could have been using him for all the things he was giving her
DeleteI agree Yesenia, I don't think she actually cared about Joe. As to why she didn't sympathize with Joe, seeing how both were outsiders, I think that society's standards played a major role. Maybe society influenced Bobbie's choice "hoping on the bandwagon" or maybe she rejected Joe to feel like she was apart of a society that made her an outcast.
DeleteI agree as well, I think that Christmas's hatred for women really began with Bobbie rather than Mrs. McEachern.
DeleteI also agree, when Joe would make a reference toward Bobbie, i felt like i could feel the strong attraction he felt toward her. However, when Bobbie would come on, I could feel her having no connection toward Joe, like he was just there to be there, not to be there for her. If that make sense.
DeleteZion: I don't think his resentment of women started there. Actually, it started earlier, pretty clearly. Christmas dwelt a lot on how Mrs. McEachern complicated punishment by introducing mercy and doubt; and how this is was a problem with women in general. But again; it didn't start there. More likely, it started when Mrs. Atkinson handed Joe a silver dollar. In my eyes; Joe has always been that five year old kid, waiting for punishment. He waited for Atkinson to punish him; later he eagerly waited for Mr. McEachern to punish him (I suspect he attacked the girl hoping to be punished for his "sinful" desires); and later he would tell every woman he slept with of his race (because the first time he had done so, he had been punished).
DeleteTo me: Joe is a masochist because pain is ordered. His life has been a whirlwind; chaotic and confusing and illogical- which is why he seemed almost pleased when Mr. McEachern punished him. The punishment was predictable. Structured; orderly; calm, almost normal. Joe's entire idea of what normalcy and stability is, is centered around pain. And he sees mercy as 1.) merely a roadblock to his stability, and 2.) a feminine thing (as no man has ever showed him mercy; but women from Alice to Atkinson to Mrs. McEachern to Max's wife have), and so he confuses feminine with unstable.
Joe has issues.
I agree with all of you guys, I to think that maybe Joe Christmas was just another "customer" in Bobbie's life and that all the intimate activities that they did together might have just been another random encounter with another guy for Bobbie. It was kind of a bummer how she left Joe straight up without no regret and I think that moment just added to his continuous anger with women instead of starting there. He had believed that he was finally being accepted by a woman, but in reality it was the other way around. I also really like your quote Daisy because it really conveys the thought of fitting in society and life.
ReplyDeleteI agree with all the comments above. Bobbie was so eager to share his secret that he entrusted her with as long as she herself made it out of harms way. It seemed that overall she really only cared about herself and her well being.
ReplyDeleteI think that she shared that he was biracial because she was hurt. I don't think she meant to use it against him. She was hurt. She was humiliated and branded a hart in front of everyone ar the dance. Joe murdered his father, and expected her to be fine with it. He expected her to accept his marriage proposal after such a rough night. No, i don't think the way that Bobbie acted was the best way to handle the situation, but i guess i can sympathize with her because when people are angry they say things they don't mean without thinking about the consequences. I do agree with Brendan, Joe is a masochist. Lupe did bring up a good point, Faulkner essentially foreshadowed that there relationship wouldn't last and one could even argue that it wasn't even love.
ReplyDeleteYes, everyone had made a good point and it helped me understand deeply about the relationship between Joe and Bobbie. It was Joe's first time showing interest towards a girl and her didn't know the rules of it. He was foolish of trusting Bobbie his secret of being biracial, but he didn't know any better on how open you should be. It is pretty messed up of how Bobbie left him for worse and moved on for business.
ReplyDeleteI agree with all the comments above. I believe that their relationship wasn't so real to begin with. I think that she just used him rather then him using her. Even though she is a prostitue she still had the audacity to treat someone like that. It seemed pretty ironic to me.
ReplyDeleteWhat I understood from the these chapters was that Bobbie thought that Joe was just a "regular customer." I agree with some of the comments above maybe Joe misinterpreted what love really is. He is hit constantly by McEachern, Joe thinks that the compassion Mrs.McEachern was evil; how is he suppose to know what love is?
ReplyDeleteI actually thought before reading the end of the chapter that Bobbie may become friends with Christmas because they were both unwanted in society. But yet instead Bobbie begins to put Christmas down. Wouldn't you think they would confide in one another? But it was a one way street between them.
ReplyDeleteI think alike, Bobbie used Joe not the other way around. It's ironic how Joe was the one who ended up hurt rather than Bobbie. But maybe Joe need to love himself, accept himself before anyone can. The hatred in his poor heart only makes things so much worse for him.
ReplyDelete